If all we perceive is a "lie" for whatever reasons you choose to posit, then your assertions like that of Also, I am not making an argument against Christianity per se or that Christianity is a "lie" like everything else in life as you so stated above. My understanding of M-Theory and cosmology is that it would take enormous amounts of energy to escape into these other universes. The use of words like prisoner is nothing more than a poetic device, for which I was not the first to use in this discussion. H8064 - שָׁמַיִם shâmayim, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused singular שָׁמֶה shâmeh; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve):—air, astrologer, heaven(-s).
Could it be a dimension outside this miraculously individually 'owned experience' we perceive here?

I always want to say 'you're going where?

God--the universe--the consciousness that pervades and creates--that which makes us aliveSkin--sin--the separation which covers us with a powerful delusion that makes us believe we are not united in a permanent, ethereal way.It's not the actuality of it that is our prison--it is our perception of what we think is reality.You have hit the nail on the head. Maybe this spiritual part is not a prisoner of this body, and when the body is gone... we transcend it and become one with this ethereal realm... possibly referred to as heaven?

In modern times, the word "heaven" is often assumed to be a somewhat abstract place. That's why its 'the way. Carl Sagan said something like... we are part of the cosmos trying to know itself. It's actual etymology derives from "god's house". I'm not talking about the grey haired god, but rather what I have always perceived as what God really is--the united mind of the universe--the consciousness that is also energy, light, vibrations, waves. To me, if one can believe God made everything--and God is good, then why is not everything God made therefore good? Christianity is a perversion of the truth just like everything else.

In fact, we do know things about this universe, or about existence generally. In Genesis 1:6 Elohim separated the "water from the water". Exodus 24 describes a throne made of sapphire. But, then again, who am I to say what works for someone else--except that it doesn't seem to be really working for anyone. 5).

Where is this eternal realm located if not in the sky that entomology of the word heaven refers too. In modern times, the word "heaven" is often assumed to be a somewhat abstract place. This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. Christianity is a perversion of the truth just like everything else. No one will ever get any closer to it attached to silly ideas suited for sunday school.I think that the religious of today discount skywatching because they assume 'leaders in church' are right when they say it's bad--but anyone carefully checking that assertion out would see there is nothin g against using the sky as a timekeeper or some sort of other indicators of things--omens, so to speak.

But if those who formed ancient religions (including Chrsitianity) believed god resided in the sky, why is it valid to discount this today?That's the funny thing with religion, it stubbornly have to adjust to new scientific findings. How does one define itself? Or, you could call it 'dysfuctionally limited perceptual perspective.' I think it's basically a case of losing the ability to think for one's self in favor of being legally righteous (whatever that means).

The Hebrew word shamayim is constructed of two parts: sham (שָׁמַ) derived from Akkadian samu meaning "sky" or "lofty", and Hebrew mayim (מַיִם) meaning "water".
As you said:  It is our 'skin' which separates us perceptually from that truth. The physical world makes us it's prisoner, and by being shown that a soul can live after physical death, that is the reality and the reason for the 'lost sheep' and the 'shepherd.' 'It's totally metaphysical in it's suggestion. It's actual etymology derives from "god's house".But, is that really what the word meant in the first century (and before).

Rakia, Authorized Version, firmament. But, is that really what the word meant in the first century (and before). Carl Sagan said something like... we are part of the cosmos trying to know itself. Isaiah 6 describes an altar standing before God's throne.

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